Well after yesterdays mild rant I say another thread on the same site that was just as bad if not worse. ( mind you grumpy found yesterdays story especially the toy analogy hysterically funny. His comment was if I’m still on the toy shelve after ‘Christmas’ he’ll remember to dust me down once in a while.) and it just goes to show that even though male YSA do have the priesthood it doesn’t mean it automatically grants us wisdom to go along with it. That you have to learn.
Right, thread in question “ What the bishop doesn’t know should remain a secret” as soon as I saw this I started getting worried. There’s no way that a thread with this title is going to have a happy ending. As per yesterdays posts, my comments in bold.
“I have a gr8 friend who is now taking temple prep classes and want to do better in the church... Always good to hearProblem is, she was inactive a few weeks ago and did everything against the teachings (i.e sex, smoking, drinking ect..)
Danger, danger will robinson
She repented (on her own or in her heart), she hasn't told the Bishop about that. She is very convinced that as long as she has stopped doing that sort of stuff and feels repented and forgiven, there is no need to share those with the Bishop and therefore she will continue with the Temple prep classes and go to the Temple.
Hmm on shakey ground here me thinks. If she really feels forgiven why doesn’t she want to tell the bishop.
My worry is, if she hasn't gone thru the repentance process with her Bishop, then go thru the Temple and get endowed, then she hasn't got the basic understanding in the first place? Do we deal with these sort of things all on our own? Then aren't we making Bishops redundant?!!
At least they would have a quiet life
I feel guilty that she told me all these things
And maybe because you have shared this to anyone worldwide who has access to this site
and I'm sort of nudging her towards chatting to her Bishop about it before she makes those kinds of commitments with the Lord...
gentle encouragement is good
I know I have no right in dictating what she should or shouldn't regarding her spiritual life.
But I feel she shouldn't take that big step without going thru the proper channels...
Probably true. But if there is still a problem I’m sure the spirit will prompt the bishop.What would you do?
Not tell the whole world for a start
Should I just leave it?”
So Initial post not too bad. A girl who obviously has some worries but has been rather silly posting this on a worldwide website. Anyone who looks at her profile will see what wards she’s from and will be able to figure out who this girl is. I think most people would agree that she should keep encouraging the girl to talk to the bishop, who will know if she needs to repent or not.
Then surprise, surprise a reasoned sensible post
“You are right to encourage her to go see the bishop. It is his stewardship to basically coach us through repentance. If she really honestly feels like she has repented, then she will be able to have a good chat with the bishop and resolve things easily, but there are some sins that require a bishop's okay to get the recommend, no matter how much you have already repented on your own
The girl who posted this is smart. couldn’t have put it better myself. .”
There’s then a couple of posts about how good a friend the girl who started this thread is to worry so much about her friends spirituality. No mention however that her judgment might be slightly suspect in telling the whole site about her friends sins.
And then we start to go into freefall.
”She kept saying that she has felt the spirit and she knows that God has forgiven her.
There was a good thing Bro H said about this sort of situation which I can’t remember. Engineseer you remember?
I said to her, that is not the point at all. God will forgive everybody and those He chooses to,
This makes no sense if he forgives everybody, then he must have chosen to forgive everybody she seems to have got confused here.
but it is not up to us to make that decision about not seeing the Bishop about things we have done esp in a recent past....”
but apparently you feel the decision it is up to you and everyone on this site."
and start to speed up
“If she truly has repented it shouldn't be a problem for her to talk to the Bishop about it. Know what she said when I suggested that?*you do what the spirit tells you, but I do not think I need to do that*and thats when I felt a strong desire to help her out!!!"
Then someone else chimes in and the rate of descent speeds up again.
“she was inactive a "few weeks ago."
If this is true why is she in temple prep classes so soon.
If she has been an active member prior and recently, and thinks she can just sin and repent later,
She said she has repented not that she’ll do it later.
she has bigger problems than she knows.”
And I’m sure you can see them from up on your pedestal. "
Back to girl who started thread
“I just have this feeling that she will go thru the interviews with gr8 dishonesty and say she is all clear....
Well that’s her choice. You’ll have to trust in the spirit and that the bishop will be inspired and get the truth from her.
Guess if that happens, she has to live with it not me.
At the end of the day, one can only do so much right?”
And if that fails tell her problems to the rest of the world. "
Guy then chimes in to make some comments along the lines that she needs to trust that her bishop and stake pres will be inspired. Starter of thread comes back;
“I sincerely hope the Bishop will be inspired.If not him maybe the Stake Pres.It is only for her own good right?
And we all seem to know what for her own good though don’t we?”
Hurray we’re getting somewhere.
Cue clever clogs from Utah
“BYU would say you should go to the Bishop directly and tell him what the person has done.
If your sins don’t find you out rest assured your friends will
Another point to think about, should we (members of the Church) collectively ensure the sacredness Holy places by keeping not only our unclean selves but other unclean things out of Holy places as well.
I must have missed the lesson about how important it is to tattle on everyone.
I would say, go to the Bishop and ask his advice on the situation. Simple present the question to him as you have done here.”
Because I’m sure he won’t know who your referring to as I’m sure you have lots of recently reactivated girls, who are friends of yours taking temple prep classes because they want to go to the temple as it is a ‘interest"
Someone else jumps in advising the girl she should pray for her friend, but back off. Just being there for her friend when she needs her. No pressure. Good advice I think we’ll all agree.
Cue Clever cogs again, enter stage right.
“The inspiration to the Bishop or Stake President will be there but is the inspiration there for the friend?
Only one person can answer that question.
My wifes Stake President 'made up' his own questions for receiving a Temple Recommend for marriage that he asked all persons seeking to be Sealed.
I think theres a phrase for making up your own ‘standard questions’ care to guess what it is?
That is when it came to the Law of Chasity he questioned about specific things outside the standard questions.One reason for the Stake President making up his own questions is that the inspired question "Do you live/obey the Law of Chasity" means only "No sex before marriage" to some people,
It should mean that to all people. It's not rocket science.
with others who think sex while using condoms does mean sex.
Does that mean there are member who think sex with out condoms isn’t sex?
A friend once told me of his BYU ward and the Bishop giving a "Chasity talk" where the Bishop had to give a list of acts that violated the law of chasity.”
This is very, very scary if true. "
A few more people then add to the thread advising her just to be a friend and support her and encourage her. All sensible comments,
It doesn’t last.
They then starting talking about the bishop and questioning his motives and criticizing him for putting her in the temple prep classes. Your questioning your priesthood leaders so the only thing to say in response to that is
“ Danger, danger will robinson”
Starter of thread then goes on about how she talked to her friend and gave her the suggestions from the thread but her friend seemed to get upset for some reason. Hmmm maybe that’s because you’ve declared her sins to several thousand people. She then says she is not getting involved anymore as it is not her job.
Phew it’s over.
Cue clever clogs mk 2
“I know if we know that someone is unworthy to take the sacrament, then we should intervene.
Really? I can’t remember hearing that before. What are we supposed to do rugby tackle them.
. should we in this case too?
Hmm I don’t know but I would say not. It’s not exactly going to help a ward spirit if everybody is telling the bishop everything little thing that other people have done wrong. remember none of us are perfect
would it be bad to tell the bishop that an individual has told you they've done some bad things,
and dont want to talk to the bishop about it?
If they told you as a friend yes! If you’re a friend you want to help them. Encourage them. If you run to tell on them they’ll in all likelihood never speak to you again and leave the church. It’s happened over a lot less
or am i way off.”
In my opinion yes, anyone feel free to disagree with me though
Then clever clogs the third
“I would confront the person privately and say...you shouldn't be taking the sacrament
and I encourage you to see the Bishop.”
Yeah gentle encouragement doesn't work but give her orders will. I'm sure this will work. honest"
The thread finally finishes (for the moment at least) with the starter of the thread
“Absolutely, we should intervene somehow.
Yes we obviously know what’s good for her.
.. Whether telling the Bishop is the right thing I still yet to find out....”
I really hope this doesn’t mean she’s already gone and done it…..
Well I know it’s been very easy for me to comment and I’ve probably been judgmental too. After all I am looking into this situation from the outside in. If I was in this situation I probably wouldn’t go to the bishop but I would go to a trusted priesthood holder or leader such as photoshop or Bro H to get their opinion on a ‘hypothetical situation’ which probably wouldn'tfool them for a second but they would probably play along for appearences. If their advice would be to go and see the bishop I would. But I like to think it would be a unnecessary trip as the spirit would have inspired him first.
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